Saturday, March 22, 2008

Vitamin D and Testosterone: Another "Fountain of Youth" Find

When Dr. Davis of Track Your Plaque first reported his phenomenal success using Vitamin D to reverse coronary plaque I pretty much blew it off as coincidental and too good to be true. But, once again, Dr. Davis has proven to be the "Nostradamus of Heart Disease Reversal" as breaking data continues to support his prediction and clinical evidence.

After much brow beating, I finally decided to try Vitamin D. With some rather interesting results. Let's first set the table for my experience.

When I first became a follower of Dr. Davis (long before there was a Track Your Plaque) I had my testosterone tested and it was fairly low (near the bottom end of normal). Because testosterone can be an effective Lp(a) remedy (my scourge) I tried using a testosterone cream to raise my level and it promptly went up to the high end of normal. But, for various reasons (no effect on Lp(a), lowering of HDL, and it's inconvenient as hell to use) I stopped. But look at my Testosterone (T) blood levels since I started using Vitamin D!


DateT (ng/dL)Vit D (ng/mL)Notes
10/18/01328UnknownBaseline testosterone
02/06/03774UnknownStarted topical testosterone
08/04/0679253.0Stopped T 1 year earlier/started 2100IU D
12/26/0773540.78000IU Vitamin D (increased for winter)
03/06/0872869.210000IU Vitamin D (needed more to hit TYP threshhold)


As you can see the Vitamin D was just as effective at raising my endogenous testosterone as was using synthetic, topically applied testosterone cream. Also note that I had to signficantly raise my D dosage in winter months to offset the lack of sun. The other goofy thing is that for some reason there is a threshhold effect at around 50ng/mL (although mine kicked in at 40). This Vitamin D stuff is damn interesting. The numbers do not lie and for a numbers guy like me its all the proof I need.

Regards,

HeartHawk

137 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hawk,

The reason I share is to find out if this is common with others.

I find (3 times now) every time I get over 2400 IU a day, I become nauseous thought of food makes me feel sick in addition to dry heaves. This will pass after a couple of days when I stop the Vitamin D. I am holding at 2400 IU per day. The last blood Vitamin D test indicated 30 ng/mL
. But my HDL was the highest it has ever been 56 mg/dl (9 months at 2400 IU).

Thanks for the note on Testosterone I wondered why mine have been going up it is the Vitamin D!

Oh, and I did have my calcium blood level checked it was normal not high.

Anonymous said...

I had the same think happen EXCEPT I wasn't taking Vitamin D, in other words just taking the testosterone increased my levels and they stayed up even months after I stopped taking the testosterone. In my research there is no evidence at all that the vitamin D has anything to do with the testosterone levels. Sorry.

Dr. B G said...

Dear Anonymous,
Vit D is part of a family of nuclear steroid receptors -- I believe they are all intimately related. And in fact like a family, when one is gone missing, the others fill in! Isn't that fascinating...
With vit D3, my estrogen raised from low levels to near normal and my HDLs increased 20% from 70 to 84 mg/dl.
A physician in Berkeley, CA uses Vitamin D apparently (haven't had a chance to pick up the book) to normalize Thyroid Function. Dr. Stephen Langer. In other words he uses about 2000 IU vitamin D3 to make TSH go back to normal 0.2 to 3.0.
Guess what? All 4... estrogen, testosterone, thyroid along with vitamin D are also part of the steroid nuclear receptor family!

(Your experience makes perfect sense. When people start Thyroid, their vit D levels increase -- really, it's 20 yrs old but in PubMed. When postmenopausal women (ie inherently low in Estrogen) already taking Thyroid replacement start Estrogen, their Thyroid levels similarly increase. Also like your experience, there are 1-2 reports in the literature that giving a woman estrogen increases the vitamin D levels :) neat, huh? i wonder why??)

Hawk is on to something!! THANK you for sharing your info :)

Anonymous said...

I respect your blog and find it very interesting, and by the way am a patient of Dr. Davis' in Milwaukee Wi. Having said that I find it bizzare that you've concluded your testosterone was raised or stayed high because of the Vitamin D.Your evidence is not exactly in line with accepted medical research procedures. i ate french fries last week and was involved in a car accident the day after, im sure somehow they're related.

Anonymous said...

A few questions:

What was your baseline after being off Testosterone for a year but before starting the vitamin D?

Did you have any symptoms associated with your low T that were resolved as they bumped up?

How long were you on the Vitamin D before you saw an improvement?

I ask because I have similar testosterone levels to your baseline with a lot of disturbing symptoms, and was recently diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency (22 on a range of 32-100).

HeartHawk said...

To: Anonymous
Re: Testosterone and D

Here is what I can tell you about my experience.

1. Unfortunately, I do not have a testosterone (T) level after stopping it prior to starting D.

2. I originally started because T can lower Lp(a) and my T was low to begin with. It did not lower my Lp(a) but did lower my HDL (this is common) so I stopped.

3. The best medical advice I have says that a low T will not remain high for any extended period after stopping it.

4. I had no other symptoms that were relieved by the T. Frankly, I saw no effect (physical or psychological) other than lower HDL.

5. I did notice much later that my dihydrotestosterone (DHT) was 10 times above the normal limit but not until I was off T and on D for at least one year. Once again, I lack a baseline DHT to make a comparison. I just had my DHT retested last week but do not have a result yet.

What are your disturbing symptoms?

Regards,

HH

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your reply.

How long had you been doing the Vitamin D when you did that 8/04/06 test?

I agree that your T shouldn't have stayed so high for no reason. I've explored doing TRT and have been told the same thing - get off and you should be back to baseline within a while. If it was at all likely that it would stay up for 3 entire years after taking it, someone would have told me, and I'd be on the stuff right now.

For those who don't know, when you take testosterone your body ceases its own T production. When you get off of it, your body crashes and then begins to produce its own again as it realizes there is not enough. By all accounts I've found this level will be the same one as before therapy. This can take a little while, but three years is MORE than enough time for that!

However, one doctor did tell me that it's not completely impossible for my body to re-balance to a higher T level than before after doing short-term therapy, since we don't know what is causing my low T in the first place. I can't find any reason to believe that it would, however, and I intend to explore every possible avenue before trying that route. The one case I know of in which this pattern is common is in treating boys with delayed puberty with TRT, but that's different.

As for my symptoms, I'm always tired, my sex drive has mysteriously all but disappeared (and ED), my appetite is extremely low, and I've become blunted emotionally. I'm only 23 (male). The tiredness and appetite has existed to some degree for about 6 years but the lack of sex drive and emotion is a COMPLETE 180 from 18 months ago and the decade prior. It all happened somewhere in about a 6-month period and has persisted for a year now.

We've tested for a lot of things with doctors (thyroid, blood panels, pituitary, MRI for pituitary tumor, sleep apnea, tried anti-depressants) and haven't come up with anything. My testosterone levels are always just barely above or just barely below the very bottom of the normal range, but we can't seem to figure out why. My pituitary looks normal.

But the other day we did the Vitamin D test... so yeah. I'm trying to learn what I can about any relationship there but so far all I can find are scattered references like yours. Hopefully this will make as big a difference for me as it did for you as low T seems to match most of my symptoms.

I started on 1,000 IU per day in addition to my regular multivitamin yesterday, and I'm talking to the doctor tomorrow (I'm still interested in why he tested this in the first place. Hopefully he knows something I don't). I might ask if I can bump it up a bit more - I don't see any harm in getting the D into the upper end of the normal range.

I'll be sure to report whether the D makes any different in my case. It still won't be entirely scientific since I'm changing my diet it other ways, too, though.

Long answer but hopefully you like the contribution to your blog.

Carol W. said...

I have suspected that Vit D
was akin to, or had some relation
to, testosterone, as I had
hair loss 3x more than normal
when my Vit D supps were over
1000 iu. Because Vit D is a fat
soluable vitamin, it took about
3-4 weeks for hair loss to stop
after lowering the Vit D. I did
feel somewhat stronger while taking
the higher amount of Vit D, but
the hair loss was untenable.
As far as I know, the hair loss
is very very unusual, and I had
chalked it up to something about
genetics of Vit D receptors, but
it may be as simple as T levels.

Carol W. said...

I like your chart of Vit D and
T, Hearthawk, but it's unclear
from your 8.4.06 line when the
T went up in relation to beginning
the Vit D supp. As noted on your
chart, it looks like your T was
still high a year after you quit
the T cream. Can you clarify
any of this?

Anonymous said...

This is purely Anecdotal but I just started a google search for "vitamin d effect on testosterone" based on my reading that vitamin d allows the correct processing of cholesterol and that cholesterol is the basis of testosterone. In addition I have noticed that my hair has started radically thinning in male pattern baldness *all of a sudden*. I started taking 5000 IU since last year.

So I wonder.

TedHutchinson said...

Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men.
Nice to see that Hawk worked it out a couple of years before anyone else.
Men with sufficient 25(OH)D levels (>/=30 mug/l) had significantly higher levels of testosterone and free androgen index and significantly lower levels of SHBG when compared to 25(OH)D insufficient (20-29.9 mug/l) and 25(OH)D deficient (<20 mug/l) men (p<0.05 for all).

In the introduction they point out Vitamin D Receptor (VDR)expression has been observed in reproductive tissues such as ovary, uterus, prostate, testis, and human sperm. VDR knock out mice have significant gonadal insufficiency, decreased sperm count and motility, and histological abnormalities of testis. Testosterone varies seasonally with 25(OH)D

Email me if you would like more details from the paper.

K. Vaughan said...

The poster who said he was taking 1000 iu per day is probably not taking enough. If you go to the UCSD-Grassroots health net videos on Youtube you can see that many people don't budge their 25OHD3 levels until they go up to 10-20,000 iu per day and the obese, diabetic or cancerous need more. A person would pick up 25,000 iu being out of doors near the equator where we evolved in 2 hours and lifeguards routinely pick up that much. You want your blood levels to get to the 50-100ng/ml range and frankly that takes work. Then you can go down to 5000 per day or so. Toxicity occurs over 200ng/ml and is almost absent from the literature unless you have scleroderma or similar abnormal calcium metabolism.

I have a number of articles on Vitamin D at my website. Start with http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com/cancer/how-to-get-vitamin-d-from-the-sun and look at the related links. I also have articles on male health that apply to ED, and I wouldn't be surprised if you raised testosterone by starting with physical activities like male pelvic floor exercises and iron-crotch qigong (both discussed there.)

Vitamin D affects all kinds of biological processes.

HeartHawk said...

Dear K Vaughan:

Thanks for your comments. At Track Your Plaque we shoot for a 25OH-D3 blood level of 60ng/dL with most Members requiring 4,000-10,000IU per day.

HeartHawk

Bill Holiday said...

Isnt 4000 IU already toxic ?
I am taking 2000 IU per day right now.

Another thing I am wondering about is that all the studies about Vitamin D never tested if the intake of Vitamin D as a pill has the same effect on testosterone levels as the sun..!

And is it more beneficial to take the whole 2000 IU in the morning or in doses over the day ?

TedHutchinson said...

@ Bill Holiday
The Risk of additional Vitamin D REINHOLD VIETH
This paper sets out the evidence showing up to 10,000iu is safe even in places you can get ample sun exposure.
Most people require 1000iu/daily/per 25lbs weight.
However if you have a condition like Diabetes you will burn through Vit D3 much faster and may need more.
Grassrootshealth D Action offer postal 25(OH)D testing.
I have seen no evidence that D3 once absorbed into the body acts differently if sourced from sun or supplement. What is crucial is the 25(OH)D level you attain and maintain.
The banner at Grassrootshealth shows the results from different daily intakes.
Startling Findings About Vitamin D Levels in Life Extension® Members and this again shows that 5000iu/daily/D3 for 3~9months only just gets people above 42ng/ml.

It is important to go above 42ng/ml because at that level you are using D3 up as fast as you consume it. You body only begins to store D3 after it has achieved a surplus to immediate needs. Above 50ng/ml the stores become signficant but even more so at 60ng/ml. It's at 60ng/ml we find least incidence of chronic illness and human breast milk is replete with D3.
The YOU TUBE Video from HEANEY What's a Vitamin D deficiency explains in greater detail.
Although I don't think there is any difference between sun/supplement CHOLECALCIFEROL Vitamin D3 I still think SOME (short non burning) sun exposure is desirable. The body is very clever at maintaining a natural balance and when you raise your 25(OH)D with sufficient effective strength supplement to cover your daily needs then the natural control system in your body will regulate the amount of extra D3 you skin makes from sun/uvb exposure.
The HIGHER your 25(OH)D the LESS new D3 is generated. So there is no chance of D3 toxicity from sunlight.
It is NOT SAFE to rely on sun exposure without regular testing.
This paper shows that in urban situations the ozone absorbs D3 so although those older women gardeners got more UV exposure (reflected from hard surfaces) than the rural women gardners (UV absorbed by plants) they received less UVB and therefore had lower vitamin d status.
Without testing there is no way you can be sure someone relying on sun only is getting sufficient UVB. And it's not just OZONE.
UVA also degrades D3 so time spent behind glass will lower 25(OH)D.
Upper Atmospheric dust creates noctilucent clouds and these also reflect UV back into space.

TedHutchinson said...

Taking vitamin D with the largest meal improves absorption and results in higher serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
So ONCE daily with the largest meal of the day.
If you wanted to supplement just ONCE a week that's fine for everyone who isn't pregnant or breastfeeding. They are the only people who NEED to take D3 daily to supply an even amount to the baby.
Remember it's fat soluble so butter, lard, coconut oil or other FAT provides a suitable carrier.
Country Life, Vitamin D3, 5,000 IU, 200 Softgels in MCT oil are arguably better (more stable, less likely to go rancid and more easily absorbed & metabolized) than those in OMEGA 6 oils (we don't need more omega 6)
D3 in omega 3 fish oils tends to be very pricey and the amount of EPA + DHA in the tiny capsules is so trivial it's really not worth paying that extra money for.
$5 discount code for new IHERB users is WAB666 but check other suppliers as the total cost including P&P does vary.

HeartHawk said...

Ted:

Thanks for the updates. This D3 issue seems almost bottomless. Given the volume of D3 receptors in the body I guess we shouldn't be surprised!

HeartHawk

Anonymous said...

Confirmation!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7127197/Sunbathing-boosts-mens-sex-drive.html

Sunbathing 'boosts men's sex drive'
A spot of sunbathing boosts men's sex drive, reveals a new study.

Published: 10:22AM GMT 01 Feb 2010
Testosterone levels in men's blood rise accordingly with doses of vitamin D.

The vital nutrient is produced in the body after exposure to sunlight and can also be obtained from eating oily fish and meat.

Researchers at the Medical University of Graz in Austria found men with more vitamin D per millilitre of blood had much more of the main male sexual hormone circulating than those with less.
And the average amount of testosterone over the course of the year was subject to the same fluctuations as the vitamin D level.

Both decrease from October - at the beginning of the winter months - and reach their lowest level in March because of the weaker solar radiation during this period.

Ad Brand, spokesman of the Sunlight Research Forum in Veldhoven in the Netherlands, said: "Men who ensure their body is at least sufficiently supplied with vitamin D are doing good for their testosterone levels and their libido among other things."

The new findings back up previous research that found an hour of sunshine can boost a man's testosterone by 69 percent.

Testosterone is the most important male sexual hormone. In males it is mainly responsible for the development of the sex organs, the formation and maintenance of the typical male sexual characteristics, sperm production and the controlling of male desire.

Stimulated by UV radiation, 90 per cent of vitamin D in the body is produced by the skin. An average vitamin D level of 30 nanograms per millilitre of blood (30 ng/ml) represents the scientific value from which vitamin D has a sufficiently positive effect. Optimal values are between 40 and 60 ng/ml.

Bill Holiday said...

Thank you for your replies guys.

To resume because I am still not quite sure:
It is save to take up to 10.000 IU every day?
Once I read that the blood levels reach 60 nmol/l after a 3 month consume of 10.000 IU a day. Everything above 60 is toxic. That means I should get my blood levels tested ?

TedHutchinson said...

@ Bill Holiday
It is save to take up to 10.000 IU every day?
In this paper Vieth argues that 10,000iu/daily is safe even in sunny countries.
The Risk of Additional Vitamin D click the link and you can read the paper or at least look at the plots showing adverse events at different intakes and 25(OH)D levels, from which you will see at 10,000iu/daily no adverse events have been recorded and you have to go above 150ng/ml before there is any possibility of adverse events.
60 nmol/l by the way is far too low.
80nmol/l is regarded as the lowest acceptable level as at that level most people absorb optimum amounts of calcium HOWEVER to get everyone with maximum bone mineral density above 105nmol/l would be required.
Even at that level NO VITAMIN D is stored. Around 40ng/ml 100nmol/l people are using daily the vitamin D they make daily. There are no reserves to fight infection or other pathogens.
If we want to be sure we have sufficient reserves to deal with a crisis means getting levels around the 60ng/ml mark 150nmol/l. It's only around that level we find Human breast milk with sufficient vitamin d to provide optimum amounts for babies surely this is a sign of the natural primitive level our DNA evolved to work best with.
Dr Davis of the Heartscanblog has been keeping his heart patients at this level with oil based gel capsules and is report enormous benefits.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your site. I have been on bio-identical testosterone for three years. I have had several blood test to get it up around 800 where it has remained. This past year I decided I was going to get my vitamin D up between 60-80 and had to take 15,000 iu per day to get it to 85. I just tested and there is where it is at now. Incresing my vitamin D was the only thing I had done different in the past year. I was shocked when the blood work showed my testosterone had shot up to 1200, dht to 383 and estradiol to 92. I have backed off on the vitamin D3 to 10,000 iu and I' taking something to lower my dht and estradiol. I think the only thing that could have caused the increase was the much higher dosage of Vitamin D3. I was taking 5,000 iu the year before and that only got my level up to 41. What do you think? Rick

HeartHawk said...

Rick:

Your results and mine speak for themselves. Note that Vitamin D is really NOT a vitamin - it is a hormone. I don't have s solid answer other than the body has an extensive number of D receptors so nothing shocks me anymore. I just spoke with Doc Davis at Track Your Plaque and this phenomenon is unexplained but not new.

I would shoot for a D level of about 60ng/dL which means you could probably back off a little (perhaps to 8000IU which is my dose) particularly during the summer if you spend any time outdoors.

HeartHawk

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However, one doctor did tell me that it's not completely impossible for my body to re-balance to a higher T level than before after doing short-term therapy, since we don't know what is causing my low T in the first place

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I had the same think happen EXCEPT I wasn't taking Vitamin D, in other words just taking the testosterone increased my levels and they stayed up even months after I stopped taking the testosterone. In my research there is no evidence at all that the vitamin D has anything to do with the testosterone levels. Sorry.

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Thanks for sharing this post! I used to try promoting my testosterone naturally for a while and since I succeeded it absolutely elevated my power int he gym ;) I found that exercise is really essential. Because i've already tried all the herbal tricks (stuff like zinc) I'm also wondering about testing some testosterone cream. Came across Andro-plus...has anyone else used it? Seems legit but i cant know for certain.

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